35276-35300
35276 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:30pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
I was thinking the same thing Stu. I was with Randy at the Jamboree they are watching this trail closely. Jim F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho Marx"
Member of the original dirty have dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:10 PM
To: ebnhils@earthlink.net; 'AzVJC'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
Hello All,
Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November 25, 2001.
When: Sunday The 25th
Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
Rating: 4.5
Length:
CB Channel: 4
Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the 25th. We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We will be on chanel 4.
**** NOTICE! ****
Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be used during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in the CLOSURE of this trail.
Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out toward the Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off camber obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not necessarily probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced 4-wheeler with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r) are required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must too.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
35277 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:30pm
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving
Same back at ya...and to everyone.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: JoeKPhx
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:46 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Thanksgiving
It is truly an honor being a part of this group.
I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving.
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Joe Kearney
Have a good day
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
35278 From: imagineero <imagineero@m...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:39pm
Subject: Re: Replacing Brakes
A case of beer is a good place to start.......
Just kidding. The best tools you can have a are a bottle of brake fluid (probably DOT3, or DOT4), a length of clear hose, a toothbrush, some paper cups and some rags.
I remove my calipers completely when doing a brake pad change. You need to completely clean the pistons and you should flush all the old brake fluid too, so bleeding them is no big fuss. Start by removing the caliper from the disk, take out the old pads, then remove the dust seals (if you have them) from the caliper. Now get your partner/significant other to press on the brake pedal a few times. you want the piston to come out of the caliper about 1/4 of an inch. When it's this far, take a set of multi-grips (vise grips) and pinch the brake line just before the caliper. Now remove the banjo bolt and your caliper is off.
Pistons move further and further out of the caliper with time to compensate for pad wear. Despite the use of dust seals they gather road grime fast. This isn't a problem until Joe Average installs new pads. He pushes the piston back into the caliper with a big hammer or a C-clamp and all that grime goes into the seals (the brake fluid seals, not the dust seals) and screws them up. Now the pistons can't move freely and one side will probably brake harder than the other. In extreme cases one tire will lock up before the other. You might end up with brake fluid leaking out.
Cleaning them is easy enough. Don't use any chemical cleaners like degreaser etc, they destroy the seal. Luckily brake fluid is safe as a cleaning agent and disolves grease and grime nicely. Take your toothbrush and a cup of brake fluid and start scrubbing. Use cotton gloves to help rub the piston too, use the rags. After it is clean, make it nice and dry. After cleaning check the piston for nicks and scratches. Now use a C-clamp to push it back in (or a hammer with a piece of wood). The piston goes in much easier when the caliper is not connected to the brake line. Just watch out for brake fluid squirting all over the place.
Re-assemble, put a little grease around the rim of the piston (where it mates with the pad) and on the pins that the pad slides on too. Repeat with other side. Now it's time to flush all the old fluid. Compare the color of the fluid in your master cylinder to the fluid in the new bottle. The new fluid is probably a clear amber like beer, and the old fluid is probably like week-old coffee. Brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) and *does* wear out with time. Yearly replacement is highly recommended. If you don't notice an improvement in the feel of your brakes then you're probably lead footed. Start by filling the master cylinder then start bleeding. use the clear hose on the bleed nipple. Keep bleeding and topping up (don't let the master cylinder run dry) until clear fluid is coming out the hose. You're done.
Shaun
South Korea
>Hi there,
>
>Getting ready to replace my brake pads tonight...
>
>Any helpful pointers... I have done them on other vehicles before,
>just not a jeep. Are there any special tools I need?
>
>Thanks in Advance,
>
>Jason
35279 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:48pm
Subject: [FS] F.Y.I. (winch)
Price: $400+$20 s&h;
Contact: www.ithinkjeep.com
New mile marker electric winches...8000#
A freind just bought this winch and said it works very well..
Chris Jean
35280 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:49pm
Subject: [TR] Crown King from Lake Pleasant - Friday, November 23, 2001 - Reminder
Hello All,
BOB LYNN is leading a Crown King from Lake Pleasant trail run on Friday, November 23, 2001.
When: 8:30 a.m.
Where: Meet at the first parking lot off of the pavement on the left side of the road of off of the Castle Hot Springs road.
Rating: 3.0-
Length: 7-8 hours
CB Channel: 09
THIS IS A GREAT TRAIL TO BRING OUT OF TOWNERS ON. IT SHOWS EVERYONE AZ. ENVIROMENT AND CLIMATE, WHILE TESTING YOUR RIGS CAPABILITIES AND YOUR SKILLS IF YOU TAKE THE CHALLENGING LINES.THERE ARE SIMPLE BY-PASSES ON EVERY OBSTICLE. AN OPEN RIG WITH 32" TIRES CAN HANDLE THIS TRAIL WITH JUST ENOUGH DIFFICULTY TO MAKE IT A THRILL TO COME BACK TO AGAIN AND AGAIN. MY PREFFERRED STOP IN CROWN KING IS THE MILL RESTAURANT, THEY HAVE FOUR STAR FOOD AND YOU DEFINATELY GET YOUR MONEYS WORTH. A SANDWICH FOR $7.50 THAT COMES WITH FRIES OR COLESLAW IS SERVED IN HALVES AND WILL FILL TWO MEN. IF TIME PERMITS I WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK DOWN ON THE TRAIL, OTHERWISE THE FRONT TRAIL DROPS US DOWN ONTO THE I-17 AT BUMBLE BEE IN 1.5 HOURS. I HAVE TO EMPHASIZE THAT I DO NOT WANT TO RUN THIS TRAIL UNLESS WE HAVE AT LEAST 6 DEFINATES COMMITTED.
The Lake Pleasang to Crown King trail is a local favorite. On any given weekend, there will be numerous groups of four wheelers, ATV's and motorcycles heading to and from Crown King. It is a fun and scenic trail into the cooler pines of the Bradshaws. This trail was the first trip ever done by AzVJC.
The trail takes off from the Castle Hotsprings Rd and travels through the foot hills and up the side of the mountain, giving nice views of Lake Pleasant and the Valley. There are some tougher optional sections that can make it interesting.
The trail goes through the old ghost towns of Fort Misery and Oro Belle, both of which are remnants of the Mining era of the Bradshaw Mountains. All that remains now, are foundations and a few crumbling walls. Fort Misery makes a nice place to stop and eat lunch as the small creek usually has running water and there are trees to provide shade.
In the winter months, the trail from Fort Misery through Oro Belle to Crown King will often have snow and/or ice. In the summer, an early start is necessary to stay ahead of the rising temperatures.
Once on top of the mountain, the trail runs through the cool pines and into Crown King. In Crown King there are places to eat and have a drink, and a general store that sells some excellent fudge. The old Crown King Saloon was actually built in Oro Belle, and later hauled up (many years ago) to Crown King and rebuilt. In Oro Belle, the saloon was built into the side of the hill, so the upstairs were mainly accessable from the rear of the building (at ground level). The upstairs served as a place repose for women of ill fame.
There are campgrounds on top of the mountain near Crown King for those wishing to stay overnight. The fastest way down is via the main road which leads through Cleator and toward Bumble Bee. You can split off and go through Cordes Junction, which will get you to the Freeway quicker, or keep going strait and go through the little town of Bumble Bee.
Alternatively, you can take the Senator Highway toward Prescott or Mayer, this can be a very interesting trail during snow season. If you have the time, follow Towers Mountain rd through Crown King and up to the top of Towers Mountain, there are some excellent views and you can join back up with the Senator Highway afterward.
Have fun, remember to bring water and your camera.
Enjoy, and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Sign Up List:
BOB LYNN Definite
Travis Carpenter Definite
Matt Twinam aka Machew Definite
Pat Dicks Definite
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
35281 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 9:47pm
Subject: RE: [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
I'm just wondering is it the ASA4WDC that owns the land jaw breaker is on?
I've always wondered how you keep people from running a trail when you
really have no say in it. If the ASA4WDC does own this land or has some
deal with the BLM then I can see that.
Michael
----Original Message Follows----
Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the
ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@e...]
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
Hello All,
Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November 25,
2001.
When: Sunday The 25th
Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
Rating: 4.5
Length:
CB Channel: 4
Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the 25th.
We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We will
be on chanel 4.
**** NOTICE! ****
Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be
used
during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in the
CLOSURE of this trail.
Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out toward
the
Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez
Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off camber
obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very
important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not necessarily
probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced 4-wheeler
with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r) are
required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch
somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must too.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
35282 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Anyone need a laugh? Compliments of the Jeep-l
LOL Thought I had a bad day... woo hoo!!!
John K
35283 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 2:41am
Subject: Re: RE: Steering Stabilizers
dropped pitman arms help out a lot too...
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: Steering Stabilizers
> > And here all this time I thought that bump steer was caused by
> > non-parallel draglink/trackbar, AND that it occurred when both wheels
> > travel upwared at the same time at higher speeds (ie. highway dips
> > and/or bumps) on lifted Jeeps or trucks. Having a front trackbar is
> > a must on a Jeep.
>
> ** CORRECTION** "... a must on a TJ." :-)
>
> > the steeper the angle (ie. a lifted Jeep) the more
> > of an arc it swings on when compressed vertically with the axle
> > compressing equally on both sides (ie. that highway dip/bump). When
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeepindog@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:53 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] RE: Steering Stabilizers
>
>
> > And here all this time I thought that bump steer was caused by
> > non-parallel draglink/trackbar, AND that it occurred when both wheels
> > travel upwared at the same time at higher speeds (ie. highway dips
> > and/or bumps) on lifted Jeeps or trucks. Having a front trackbar is
> > a must on a Jeep. the steeper the angle (ie. a lifted Jeep) the more
> > of an arc it swings on when compressed vertically with the axle
> > compressing equally on both sides (ie. that highway dip/bump). When
> > the trackbar swings through it's arc, it shifts the axle sideways,
> > and if the draglink is NOT parallel to the trackbar, they travel
> > unequal amounts in their respective arcs. Ergo, bumpsteer, as the
> > axle is shifted *very* slightly to the side due to the trackbar's arc
> > cycle, the draglink MUST compensate to try to keep the axle under the
> > Jeep. Steering wheel gets a tweak, and then the bump is over, and
> > the axle is once again under the Jeep, the steering wheel is now
> > straight, and life is good. Until the next bump. At the next bump
> > the phenomenon known hereafter as "Gravitational Energy Revectoring
> > of the Delta Minus AB Squared times the Constant K Log of 7" occurs,
> > which is really where all this trouble comes from. The problem is
> > that no one knows what that sliipery Constant K is. Some say it's a
> > Kellog's breakfast cereal... I have my doubts.
> >
> > Lachlan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> > > > > > True "Death Wobble" (as I understand it) is caused by
> > incorrect
> > > > > castor
> > > > > > angle. Next time at the grocery store push a shopping cart.
> > > > > Hopefully
> > > > > > you choose a cart with less mileage and now parking lot
> > damage.
> > > > The
> > > > > > front wheels have no tie rods or steering stabilizers and
> > there
> > > > is
> > > > > no
> > > > > > "Death Wobble". And this you can try too. As you are pushing
> > it
> > > > > forward
> > > > > > start to make a turn. In mid turn let go. What happens? It
> > should
> > > > > > straighten out at the point you let go.
> > > > > > Ever picked a cart that has that one annoying front wheel
> > that
> > > > just
> > > > > > won't stop rattling? Shopping cart death wobble.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bump Steer defined (as I understand it). Bump steer is when
> > one
> > > > > front
> > > > > > wheel encounters a "bump" and wheel direction changes as a
> > result
> > > > > of the
> > > > > > encounter. On the most part this can be corrected by
> > geometry. Two
> > > > > > things (again as I understand it) can alleviate bump steer.
> > One,
> > > > > drag
> > > > > > link to tie rod angle should be as flat as possible. Two,
> > drag
> > > > link
> > > > > and
> > > > > > track bar should operate on parallel planes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the Steering Stabilizer. Humm what does it do? It
> > stabilizes
> > > > the
> > > > > > steering. True it can mask death wobble but it does not fix
> > your
> > > > > caster
> > > > > > angle. And as for bump steer, it can probably hide a good
> > portion
> > > > of
> > > > > > that as well, either with a stiffer stabilizer or doubling up
> > on
> > > > > them.
> > > > > > But I doubt it will make a bad bump steering problem a safe
> > > > steering
> > > > > > vehicle. In either case a steering stabilizer used to correct
> > bad
> > > > > > geometry is not the right way to fix the problem.
> > > > > > It should also be noted that a steering stabilizer does help
> > make
> > > > > > driving more comfortable. When letting go of the wheel during
> > a
> > > > > turn it
> > > > > > will keep the steering from over correcting. When on a bumpy
> > road
> > > > it
> > > > > > keeps the wheels and steering from shaking and manageable.
> > > > > > It is also my opinion that if you have wheels above 35" you
> > are
> > > > > starting
> > > > > > to border on the need for more stabilization. (just one of
> > those
> > > > > things
> > > > > > I have an opinion about).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I stated this is just as I understand it and I could be
> > > > totally
> > > > > wrong
> > > > > > and could cause serious injury if you adapt my thoughts to
> > your
> > > > > vehicle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joey K
> > > > > > 93YJ
> > > > > > www.desertjeep.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: jeepin_in_az@y... [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 2:20 PM
> > > > > > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Steering Stabilizers
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How bout this...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who ever has a stock TJ, pretty new so no parts have worn
> > out
> > > > > yet,
> > > > > > > remove the stabalizer for a week and report back to us.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike Baney
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In az_vjc@y..., fls82@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > Es Squeeze Me,... But,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YES, with everything set up "PROPERLY," one does not
> > > > necessarily
> > > > > > > NEED a
> > > > > > > > steering stabilizer...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ANYTHING that moderates shock from wheels (tires, etc.)
> > to
> > > > wheel
> > > > > > > (steering)
> > > > > > > > IS a GOOD thing...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > IF, my steering problems are "cured" with something as
> > simple
> > > > > (and,
> > > > > > > > INEXPENSIVE) as a bolt on steering stabilizer ...I, AM
> > > > > > > HAPPY...VERY, VERY
> > > > > > > > happy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After installation, I will keep an eye on my TIRES and
> > ALL
> > > > other
> > > > > > > components
> > > > > > > > making sure that the "Simple Fix" is not hiding other
> > > > > problems...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Respy,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim B.
> > > > > > > > Flag., AZ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WOW!!!!! I must HONESTLY say that I have never heard of a worse
> > > > description of front end components than comparing them to a
> > shopping
> > > > cart.....Ok here we go.....FIRST off, those of you in the club
> > who
> > > > have had a problem with death wobble have had an alignment done
> > and
> > > > what else at the same time??? A TIRE ROTATION. Now , granted
> > death
> > > > wobble is 85% cause by a combination of incorrect toe-in which
> > > > DIRECTLY effects caster...you always adjust caster first ( in our
> > > > world of lifted jeeps you want as much POSITIVE caster that you
> > can
> > > > get with No driveline vibes) then correst the toe-in. ANY change
> > in
> > > > height of the vehicle under any circumstance will affect these
> > > > settings. The remaining 15% is caused by poor tire wear/ out of
> > round
> > > > wheels or tires. True, a steering stabilizer is a BAND-AID to the
> > > > problem, but as many of you have told me " it was kind of there
> > last
> > > > tuesday, but it has just gotten really bad today" TIRE WEAR! how
> > do
> > > > you think those tires like it when they are flopping in and out
> > al
> > > > least 8"????? They tend to wear funny!!!! I hope this clears
> > this
> > > > up if not than alignments are 45.50!!!!! TTFN!!!!!! Good night
> > > > all!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > FlexyXJ
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just
> > $8.95/month.
> > > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
35284 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 2:42am
Subject: Re: Member Sighting Joe West
its called jeep sex
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick" <nnote@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Dan Siegel" <cruzeunit@y...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Member Sighting Joe West
> Anyone have the same deal where you come out of the grocery store or
> wherever and there are like 3 Jeeps parked right next to you??? I love
> that! I'm always looking for another nice Jeep to park next to....
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Siegel" <cruzeunit@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:41 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Member Sighting Joe West
>
>
> > Joe,
> > Saw your jeep @ the Bennigans at AZ Mills. I've never met you so I
> > dont know if I saw you inside or not. We were the table with all the
> > kids. I've got the gold CJ-7 with 35's & YJ Cage,
> > Anyway, Here's a wave for ya
> >
> > Dan Siegel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
35285 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 4:12am
Subject: Re: [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
It's BLM land. The trail was wild cat-ed a couple of years ago, and BLM got
pissed. Then someone totally tore up a cottonwood in the wash, and they
really got torqued.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
> I'm just wondering is it the ASA4WDC that owns the land jaw breaker is on?
> I've always wondered how you keep people from running a trail when you
> really have no say in it. If the ASA4WDC does own this land or has some
> deal with the BLM then I can see that.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the
> ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@e...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
> To: AzVJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November 25,
> 2001.
>
> When: Sunday The 25th
> Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
> Rating: 4.5
> Length:
> CB Channel: 4
>
> Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the
25th.
> We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We
will
> be on chanel 4.
>
> **** NOTICE! ****
> Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be
> used
> during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in
the
> CLOSURE of this trail.
>
> Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out toward
> the
> Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez
> Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off camber
> obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very
> important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not
necessarily
> probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
>
> This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced 4-wheeler
> with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r)
are
> required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch
> somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
>
> Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must too.
>
> Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
35286 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 6:44am
Subject: Jaw Breaker
Doug, we have been through there a few times and it definitly had a road
through it at some time.
The problem with Jawbreaker is that riggs not up to 4+ trails should never
even try it, especially when it is wet. Sure you can do it but not without a
bunch of tearing things up. We are seeing this on every trail.
BLM will never want us in there. They think they own it, instead of you.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:13 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Baja Fleg
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
It's BLM land. The trail was wild cat-ed a couple of years ago, and BLM got
pissed. Then someone totally tore up a cottonwood in the wash, and they
really got torqued.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
> I'm just wondering is it the ASA4WDC that owns the land jaw breaker is on?
> I've always wondered how you keep people from running a trail when you
> really have no say in it. If the ASA4WDC does own this land or has some
> deal with the BLM then I can see that.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the
> ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@e...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
> To: AzVJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November 25,
> 2001.
>
> When: Sunday The 25th
> Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
> Rating: 4.5
> Length:
> CB Channel: 4
>
> Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the
25th.
> We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We
will
> be on chanel 4.
>
> **** NOTICE! ****
> Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be
> used
> during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in
the
> CLOSURE of this trail.
>
> Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out toward
> the
> Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez
> Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off camber
> obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very
> important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not
necessarily
> probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
>
> This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced 4-wheeler
> with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r)
are
> required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch
> somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
>
> Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must too.
>
> Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
35287 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:02am
Subject: Re: Jaw Breaker
I definitely agree. Rigs not up to the task tend to tear up stuff. That's
why it's always good, IMO, for the trail leader to post minimum
requirements. But even with the best built rig, dumb things can happen. I
think the large cottonwood was torn up by some idiot....and that definitely
didn't help us much. It's a good example of what to do if you want to
accelerate trail closures.
As to it being a road before, you may be right, though I don't recall seeing
any evidence. Probably not paying attention.
Happy Trails....
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Skinner" <rskinner@s...>
To: "AZVJC (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 7:44 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Jaw Breaker
> Doug, we have been through there a few times and it definitly had a road
> through it at some time.
>
> The problem with Jawbreaker is that riggs not up to 4+ trails should never
> even try it, especially when it is wet. Sure you can do it but not without
a
> bunch of tearing things up. We are seeing this on every trail.
>
> BLM will never want us in there. They think they own it, instead of you.
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:13 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Baja Fleg
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
>
>
> It's BLM land. The trail was wild cat-ed a couple of years ago, and BLM
got
> pissed. Then someone totally tore up a cottonwood in the wash, and they
> really got torqued.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:47 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
>
>
> > I'm just wondering is it the ASA4WDC that owns the land jaw breaker is
on?
> > I've always wondered how you keep people from running a trail when you
> > really have no say in it. If the ASA4WDC does own this land or has some
> > deal with the BLM then I can see that.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the
> > ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@e...]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
> > To: AzVJC
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November
25,
> > 2001.
> >
> > When: Sunday The 25th
> > Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
> > Rating: 4.5
> > Length:
> > CB Channel: 4
> >
> > Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the
> 25th.
> > We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We
> will
> > be on chanel 4.
> >
> > **** NOTICE! ****
> > Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be
> > used
> > during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in
> the
> > CLOSURE of this trail.
> >
> > Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out
toward
> > the
> > Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez
> > Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off
camber
> > obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very
> > important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not
> necessarily
> > probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
> >
> > This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced
4-wheeler
> > with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r)
> are
> > required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch
> > somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
> >
> > Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must
too.
> >
> > Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
> >
> > Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > - The AzVJC Website
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
35288 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:21am
Subject: 5-760x joints
I'm gonna get me a pair, and will give them a try. I'll post info on them
when I get a chance.
Doug
35289 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:07am
Subject: Re: [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
The ASA4WDC owns the Woodpecker Mine. This way the Upper Woodpecker
Trail has to be kept open regardless of what eco-nut group tries to
close the area to motorized off-highway recreation.
Limiting usage of the Jaw Breaker Trail is a compromise with the BLM to
keep it open to 4-wheelers. Mr. Mendoza, the director of the BLM Tucson
Resource District has a strong interest in the ecology of this part of
Martinez Canyon and feels it needs protection. I happen to agree with
him that not all areas should be open 24x365 (24x366 for leap years) to
motorized off-highway recreation. The ASA4WDC and the BLM are trying to
work out a method to reduce the amount of traffic this trail sees. Some
ideas have been locked gates and permits, building obstacles that only
the most capable 4x4s can traverse, and, in worse case, designating it a
hiking trail only. I have a feeling that the less-than-honorable
4-wheelers will probably force the hiking trail option in the end.
If you want input into how the Jaw Breaker Trail is managed, contact
Brad Jones ASA4WDC Land Use/Conservation Chair (I think you get send
email to him via the ASA4WDC web site).
BTW: A judge recently handed down a ruling that conservation groups can
bid on land leases usually set aside for grazing in Arizona. This
can/will become a problem of off-highway recreation in the future. The
leases are for 10 years. Like the spokesman for the Az Cattlemens Assoc
said, (paraphrase) "At the end of ten years there won't be ranchers to
bid on the leases and the eco-nut groups won't renew the leases because
there no incentive to keep cattle off the land." The Florence Junciton
area has 68,000 acres of leased grazing land.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
Linda
Baja Fleg wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering is it the ASA4WDC that owns the land jaw breaker is on?
> I've always wondered how you keep people from running a trail when you
> really have no say in it. If the ASA4WDC does own this land or has some
> deal with the BLM then I can see that.
>
> Michael
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the
> ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@e...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
> To: AzVJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
>
> Hello All,
>
> Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November 25,
> 2001.
>
> When: Sunday The 25th
> Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
> Rating: 4.5
> Length:
> CB Channel: 4
>
> Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the 25th.
> We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We will
> be on chanel 4.
>
> **** NOTICE! ****
> Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be
> used
> during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in the
> CLOSURE of this trail.
>
> Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out toward
> the
> Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez
> Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off camber
> obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very
> important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not necessarily
> probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
>
> This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced 4-wheeler
> with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r) are
> required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch
> somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
>
> Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must too.
>
> Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
35290 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:22am
Subject: Sedona Trails closed to the public??? Huh?!!
A co-worker, Curt, was recently in Sedona and wanted to do some
4-wheeling. He headed out Broken Arrow Estates Rd and ran into a Pink
Jeep tour vehicle. The PJ driver told him that Pink Jeep Tours has
exclusive rights to certain trails in the Sedona area, that the trails
were leased from the NFS and only Pink Jeep tour vehicles could use
them. The driver told him that the only trails he could legitimately
travel were ones marked with FS signage. I thought the Broken Arrow
Estates Rd became a FS road at the forest border. It's been a long time
since I have been there (1992 or before). Anyone know anything about
this?
Linda
35291 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:20am
Subject: Re: Jaw Breaker
Would it be possible to post trail ratings at the start of trails? Maybe
that would cut back on the number of vehicles that start a trail that are
not able to complete it.
I think the BLM needs to be reminded that it is not their land to manage but
our land.
Michael
----Original Message Follows----
Doug, we have been through there a few times and it definitly had a road
through it at some time.
The problem with Jawbreaker is that riggs not up to 4+ trails should never
even try it, especially when it is wet. Sure you can do it but not without a
bunch of tearing things up. We are seeing this on every trail.
BLM will never want us in there. They think they own it, instead of you.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:13 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Baja Fleg
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
It's BLM land. The trail was wild cat-ed a couple of years ago, and BLM got
pissed. Then someone totally tore up a cottonwood in the wash, and they
really got torqued.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
> I'm just wondering is it the ASA4WDC that owns the land jaw breaker is
on?
> I've always wondered how you keep people from running a trail when you
> really have no say in it. If the ASA4WDC does own this land or has some
> deal with the BLM then I can see that.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> Is it just me or is this trail not suppose to be ran except during the
> ASA4WDC Jamboree ?
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:ebnhils@e...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:05 AM
> To: AzVJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Jaw Breaker - Sunday, November 25, 2001
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> Eben Hobson is leading a Jaw Breaker trail run on Sunday, November 25,
> 2001.
>
> When: Sunday The 25th
> Where: Cottenwood Canyon Road at Rt79
> Rating: 4.5
> Length:
> CB Channel: 4
>
> Afew of us, one none Jeep will be running Jawbreaker on Sunday the
25th.
> We will be meeting at Cottenwood Canyon road off of Rt79 at 8:30 am. We
will
> be on chanel 4.
>
> **** NOTICE! ****
> Due to an agreement between ASA4WDC and BLM, this trail is ONLY to be
> used
> during the ASA4WDC Jamboree. Failure to comply with this WILL result in
the
> CLOSURE of this trail.
>
> Jaw Breaker is an old haul road from the Martinez Mine area out toward
> the
> Gila River and the Coke Ovens. It's actually in a lower part of Martinez
> Canyon. It's a rough run with a good number of challenging and off camber
> obstacles. It's a very techical trail, where tire placement is very
> important. Roll over and body damage are possibilities, but not
necessarily
> probable, if you take your time and find the right lines.
>
> This is not a trail to be tried unless you are an experienced
4-wheeler
> with a well equipped vehicle. High clearance and traction devices (f+r)
are
> required. The trail is about average in time and you'll be having lunch
> somewhere along the way in the canyon, so be sure to bring some food.
>
> Also, water and your camera, and spare driveline parts are a must too.
>
> Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
35292 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:48am
Subject: Re: Sedona Trails closed to the public??? Huh?!!
What a bummer. Public lands reserved for private for profit companies. As I
understand it...even when a rancher leases public land, they have to
maintain access to the roads (can't lock the gates. Maybe I'm wrong, but I
don't see how this could be enforceable.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "linda luik" <minihummer@w...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 8:22 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Sedona Trails closed to the public??? Huh?!!
> A co-worker, Curt, was recently in Sedona and wanted to do some
> 4-wheeling. He headed out Broken Arrow Estates Rd and ran into a Pink
> Jeep tour vehicle. The PJ driver told him that Pink Jeep Tours has
> exclusive rights to certain trails in the Sedona area, that the trails
> were leased from the NFS and only Pink Jeep tour vehicles could use
> them. The driver told him that the only trails he could legitimately
> travel were ones marked with FS signage. I thought the Broken Arrow
> Estates Rd became a FS road at the forest border. It's been a long time
> since I have been there (1992 or before). Anyone know anything about
> this?
>
> Linda
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
35293 From: <macunasprint@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:57am
Subject: Buying tires a Discount
I called Discount tire yesterday about a tire and wheel package I saw
in a magazine........Pro Comp Xterrain's and Eagle's (the Pro Comp's
are buy 3 get 1 free) Discount said they had no problem matching the
deal and would order them for me and sell me a road hazard to boot.
35294 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:01am
Subject: [FS] T-18 "Granny"
Price:
Contact:
Robert Massey
35295 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:06am
Subject: Re: Buying tires a Discount
I've had great experience w/ Discount. You might want to consider getting
their certificates. I've replaced many a tire under that program.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <macunasprint@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 9:57 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Buying tires a Discount
> I called Discount tire yesterday about a tire and wheel package I saw
> in a magazine........Pro Comp Xterrain's and Eagle's (the Pro Comp's
> are buy 3 get 1 free) Discount said they had no problem matching the
> deal and would order them for me and sell me a road hazard to boot.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
35296 From: Mike Acuna <macunasprint@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:09am
Subject: test
test
35297 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 4:15am
Subject: Re: Sedona Trails closed to the public??? Huh?!!
I wouldnt worry about the Broken Arrow trail unitl you see it in writing.
When I lived in Flagstaff, I used to head to Sedona to go 4wheeling. I heard
the same story from Jeep tour drivers all the time. Personally, while there
were some really nice drivers, most of them where complete idioits. " I dive
a 4x4 for a living, I am an expert blah blah blah"... "I keep getting
banging noise, but it should go away" he says, "Ya, because you got a broken
shock draging, only going to go away if it falls off" (a quote from a
conversation I once had) Most of them dont even know what a lockinghub is.
The Pink Jeeps do have a lease on the trail, I think they have to to use
public lands for profit, also to keep other tour jeeps off it. There are
quite a few up there. But as far as I know, Joe Blow Public can go anywhere
he wants. If you want to really watch them turn pink as there jeeps, run
the trails backwards. Of course not that I know from personal expeirence or
anything..............
John K "Hunter"
35298 From: Mike Acuna <macunasprint@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:19am
Subject: Disconnects and front/rear swap on a 98ZJ
Does anyone have any opinion on which disconnects are better or easier
to use......I've been looking at the JKS $109 and adjustable, or the
RE $79 with a removable center section can be changed to diff heights
$10. Also, anyone done or know anyone who has done the front/rear
swap with the springs? Taking the stock front coils and moveing them
to the rear.....installing RE 3.5" front springs up front and a rear
track bar bracket....this is supposed to net a fairly even lift.
Thanks for any info.
35299 From: <dkober@g...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:34am
Subject: Control arm bolt torque question
Anyone know the recommended torque for the control arm bolts on a TJ?
Dave
99TJ
35300 From: Mike Foster <mesa@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:48am
Subject: Re: Sedona Trails closed to the public??? Huh?!!
Pink Jeeps can not shut down public land,they do not own it.They just
do upkeep on the trail. Some of the drivers say that because they
think they do own it and do not want anyone else on it. I live up
here and have not heard one thing about closing it. Also just picked
up the Wells book on AZ and it still list BA as a trail. Pink Jeeps
suck.IMO
--- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> A co-worker, Curt, was recently in Sedona and wanted to do some
> 4-wheeling. He headed out Broken Arrow Estates Rd and ran into a
Pink
> Jeep tour vehicle. The PJ driver told him that Pink Jeep Tours has
> exclusive rights to certain trails in the Sedona area, that the
trails
> were leased from the NFS and only Pink Jeep tour vehicles could use
> them. The driver told him that the only trails he could legitimately
> travel were ones marked with FS signage. I thought the Broken Arrow
> Estates Rd became a FS road at the forest border. It's been a long
time
> since I have been there (1992 or before). Anyone know anything about
> this?
>
> Linda
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